This is a rush transcript from “Tucker Carlson Tonight,” April 10, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: Good evening and welcome to TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT. Information is our chief weapon against the coronavirus, so every night we open our show by trying to give you more of it. Chief breaking news correspondent, Trace Gallagher joins us now with a look at the very latest numbers. Hey, Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CHIEF BREAKING NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Tucker, if you look at the New York coronavirus numbers, it appears to be kind of a mixed bag.

Let’s begin with the all-important daily percentage of increase in new cases. You can see that from April 6th to 7th, on Monday, New York’s seven percent increase in the number of infections, then from the seventh to the eighth, the increase was only 6.5 percent. But the next day, it jumped up to 7.6 and today it’s gone back down to 7.1 percent.

But a key barometer when it comes to flattening the curve is the number of people admitted to hospitals and ICUs, and for New York, there is very encouraging news. Watch.


GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): Change in ICU admissions is actually a negative number for the first time since we started this intense journey.


GALLAGHER: Meantime, on the national level, we’re seeing a much steadier drop in the percentage of new cases. You can see on Monday, we had a nine percent increase and then each day the increase gets lower, today, it’s at 7.8 percent.

Dr. Deborah Birx says we are today where Italy was one week ago, but I also want to point out that there are some potential new hotspots including Delaware, South Dakota, Maryland, Rhode Island, and Pennsylvania. And it’s interesting that Washington State and California are being touted as examples for how to flatten the curve.

And yet, Los Angeles County just extended it stay at home mandate until May 15th, saying things will get much worse, but they failed to offer evidence or perspective to back up those claims — Tucker.

CARLSON: Trace, thanks so much for that.


CARLSON: So you just heard the latest on where the virus is now. It is worth taking a moment to think about where it began — Wuhan in Central China was the first place in the world to suffer an outbreak of the novel coronavirus.

It’s worth saying that out loud from time to time, both because it is true and materially significant, but also because a lot of the people in charge would rather you forgot it.

Because Wuhan is the site of the longest running coronavirus outbreak, we ought to study what happened there carefully. It’s worth knowing as much as we can about how and why the disease started and how it moved so quickly to the rest of the world.

Even now, we know surprisingly little of that for certain, though, day by day, we’re learning more.

For example, how easily does the coronavirus spread through populations? Well, early data from Wuhan led researchers to conclude that every infected person on average infected about two and a half additional people.

In epidemiological terms, that is a lot of people. It means the outbreak could double every six days and that is the assumption we’ve been working under ever since.

Now, it looks like that assumption may have been a profound understatement of what’s really happening.

A new draft paper by a team of scholars in Los Alamos National Laboratory, concludes that the Wuhan coronavirus is actually highly, highly infectious.

Based on extensive case analysis, the researchers estimate that the average infected Wuhan resident infected 5.7 other people. That’s enough to double the epidemic in fewer than three days.

Is that estimate accurate? We don’t know if it is. An awful lot of the conclusions about this virus have turned out to be embarrassingly wrong. That’s happened again and again, as we’ve told you, often with enormous consequences.

But for a moment, imagine this new number from Los Alamos is correct and the size of the outbreak in Wuhan was doubling every three days. Among other things, that would mean that a huge number of people there were infected with the coronavirus.

Here’s the mystery. The Chinese government allowed five million residents to flee the City of Wuhan before they locked it down in January. Most of these people presumably went on to other places within China, and yet, according to Chinese government, and by the way, as well as all available evidence we now have in the West, there were no other major outbreaks in China — not in Shanghai, not in Chengdu, not in Beijing.

Meanwhile, other cities all over Europe and the United States have been brought to their knees by the virus. How could this be? It doesn’t seem to make any sense at all.

For some reason, almost nobody in the American media has even asked about it. That’s strange.

At this point, we have no real explanation for why the coronavirus spread throughout the West, but not throughout China. We should find that out.

And that’s far from the only thing that we don’t understand about this pandemic. How about the most basic question of all — how deadly is it? We still don’t know that either.

In Italy, more than 10 percent of people with confirmed cases of it have died. In Germany, just two percent have died. It seems to me that both of these numbers probably overstate the reality of the death rate given that most people are not tested until they’re already sick. It’s a very skewed sample.

More comprehensive testing in one town in Germany suggests a death rate of just 0.37 percent. Would that number hold in every place? Or could it be that town was infected with maybe a milder form of the virus? Or is it possible that some groups of people are more vulnerable to illness than others?

We know that genetics does play a major role in the way many diseases progress. Is that true with this virus? We don’t know that.

While we’re at it, here are a few other questions that we should answer as soon as we can. Here’s one. Is the virus seasonal? Will it recede in the summer as well hoping before maybe returning in the fall and winter?

If infected people get immunity, how long does that immunity last? Will the virus mutate so that people who get it this year could once again get it now next year?

And critically something we should be thinking about, what are the long term effects of being infected with the Wuhan coronavirus?

There’s mounting evidence that an awful lot of people may have it and not know they do. They have no symptoms. But do they face long term health consequences from being infected? And if so, what are those consequences? We can only guess.

Those are just some of the things that we still don’t know about this strange new virus from Wuhan, China. It would have been nice if the authorities had learned a lot more about it before they took such dramatic steps in response to it.

Our leaders had two examples to choose from as this pandemic bore down on our country. They could have chosen the Swedish model of targeted restrictions coupled with voluntary distancing. Or they could have chosen the Chinese model — total lockdowns, internal travel restrictions, punishment for those who step out of line.

Our leaders chose the Chinese model. With every passing day, the response becomes more restrictive. Requests that people stay indoors have become orders that people stay indoors. People are being fined and arrested for driving alone, for playing catch in the park, for paddle boarding on the ocean.

How are measures like that keeping us safe? The short answer is we have no idea that they are keeping us safe. In fact, as noted, we still don’t know much of anything, but we’re definitely not encouraged to ask too many questions about it.

Dr. Anthony Fauci, who has become the face of the response to coronavirus is now suggesting that America could adopt a feature of life familiar to the population of Mainland China; another one, internal passports.


ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Can you imagine a time where Americans carry certificates of immunity?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: You know, that’s possible. I mean, it’s one of those things that we talk about when we want to make sure that we know who the vulnerable people are and not.

This is something that’s being discussed. I think it might actually be — have some merit under certain circumstances.


CARLSON: It might have some merit. Your papers, please? Imagine a country where illegal immigrant can work, drive, get welfare and vote all without a single authentic document. Meanwhile, more than 300 million legal citizens must produce government papers to prove their right to go outside. That could be where we’re heading and with remarkable speed.

For what has to be the first time in the history of this country, Easter services have been banded many places. Authorities will allow citizens to go to the supermarket, but not to practice Christianity in public. The Chinese population would recognize that, too.

In Michigan, Governor Gretchen Whitmer has ordered the few stores that are still open to fence off areas that offer furniture, paint, home improvement goods. Governor Whitmer considers these “nonessential items” so she is prohibiting their sale.

The governor of Vermont has issued similar orders for stores there; other places will doubtless follow. What would the rationale be for this? Wouldn’t closing off more sections of a store increase crowding in the areas that remain open? Where exactly is the science that shows this works?

Well, of course, there isn’t any. They feel like doing it, so they’re doing it. Politicians understand in the end that the only risk for them is in restraint. Authoritarian overreach is almost never punished.

When the Coronavirus has finally passed from this country, our leaders want to be able to say they took it seriously. But there’s nothing serious about reactions like this. These are mindless and destructive measures.

Instead of arresting people for going to church, maybe they could pause for a minute, dive into the science and answer a few of the most basic questions first.

Bret Baier is Fox’s chief political anchor. He hosts “Special Report” every night at six, and we’re always happy to have him. Bret, thanks for coming on.

So we haven’t seen a ton of political debate. You cover politics, obviously — political debate in public, anyway, over the nature of the restrictions that we’re living under. Do you expect some kind of public conversation about this to emerge soon?

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS CHIEF POLITICAL ANCHOR: I think so, Tucker. I mean, you saw the President today in this Taskforce briefing say that this decision that he has coming up is going to be the toughest decision of his life as he decides when and if the country is coming — is going to open up in certain sections, how it’s done specifically.

And he has this second Taskforce Reopening Council, he is calling it that he is going to launch on Tuesday. That is the crux of this issue. The economy versus the health of our country, and where is the balancing act? Because on the economy side, as we’ve talked about, we are really taking it on the chin.

CARLSON: I wonder if — and this is a broad question, I’m just wondering your impression, I wonder if political leaders are more afraid of seeming to overreact or more afraid of seeming to under react?

BAIER: Well, I think they’re really concerned about the health of the American people obviously, and when you see death numbers like 777 out of New York today that’s startling and more of that and the death toll affects public policy and how people think about things.

But at the same time, you have stories of small business owners who are not having the easiest time getting this money that was promised them through banks. The small business loan program is not so smooth as of yet out the door, and the balancing act here, I think they are more worried about overreacting.

CARLSON: Interesting. I mean, maybe this is early for this question. But do we have polling on whether Congress’s response, this $2.2 trillion package is popular with the government? Do citizens feel like they’re being helped by this or will be, doing know?

BAIER: They’re going to get that check in a couple of days, the $1,200.00 check. But again, it’s been a long time since you get that money, but it’s going to help a little bit.

But I really think that the big issue is the money to businesses and getting it out the door.


BAIER: They’re not able to open and if they can’t, eventually you have to fish or cut bait, they have to let these employees go, and then you have a whole another issue.

Tucker, it’s going to be — it’s not going to be a flick of a switch where the country suddenly goes on and the economy kicks off. People are going to have to feel comfortable that they can go out and do things, and that’s going to take leadership and a determination by Federal and state and local authorities.

CARLSON: Well, that’s it. I mean, you just put your finger on it right there — Federal, state and local — so the President — and it was my first thought when I heard him say it. This is the biggest decision I have to make, I’ll make it soon. You’ll hear it soon.

But a lot of these decisions are taking place the state level, aren’t they? It is governors that are shutting things down. Will that change?

BAIER: Well, it’s going to have to and this Council on Tuesday is going to include some governors — Democrats and Republicans. It’s going to include some local officials, whether those are mayors, we don’t have a complete list yet and business people as well as health experts and that decision and how it goes will determine, I think whether President Trump is reelected or not.

CARLSON: I think that’s likely to be absolutely true. I hope you’ll come back then. Bret Baier, great to see you tonight. Thanks a lot.

BAIER: You bet.

CARLSON: Well, a new poll confirms what — if you’ve got Google you already knew — Joe Biden was a placeholder candidate, a person people have affection for, they tolerate, but don’t necessarily think should be their standard bearer in an election.

According to “The New York Post,” a new national poll of Democrats finds that 56 percent of Democratic voters would like Biden replaced on the ticket by Governor Andrew Cuomo. The Governor’s unofficial presidential campaign is getting a ton of free advertising from CNN.


CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Now, you know, I’ve seen you referred to a little bit recently as the Luv Guv and I’m wondering if that’s bleeding into your demeanor at all, making you a little soft on the President?

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): I’ve always been a soft guy. I am the Luv Guv. I’m a cool dude and loose mood. You know that. I just say let it go. Just go with the flow, baby, you know.


CARLSON: This is called the process of humanizing a candidate. Everyone takes Andrew Cuomo seriously. He is a pretty serious guys. He is doing media briefings on TV every day. But the question is, could I like a guy like that?

And that’s when it really helps to have a brother who works in television. The Luv Guv had him smoothly tee up his presidential aspirations right on CNN. Watch this.


C. CUOMO: Are you now giving a different consideration on running for President?


C. CUOMO: So, you are still not thinking —

A. CUOMO: But it’s a good question. But why?

C. CUOMO: Well, it’s definitely a good question.

A. CUOMO: Well, I’m a thinking — I’m a thinking being. I am thinking about a lot of things.

C. CUOMO: Yes. I bet.

A. CUOMO: I’m not that politician who says yes, I want it. It’s all about me and then the step on the ladder.

Luv Guv says no way. I gave my word and my word is good. I’m not your typical guy.

Don’t laugh. You’re going to pay. Chris, one day you’re going to be better.


CARLSON: I am not one of those governors who thinks about I don’t know, being President or anything.

The question is — and this is a serious legal question, actually — is CNN reporting into these segments is in-kind contributions to the F.E.C.? That’s a political campaign ad you just saw. Are they admitting it?

Buck Sexton hosts “The Buck Sexton Show.” We’re happy to have him on with us tonight. Buck, thanks so much for coming on.


CARLSON: So I just want to be clear, we’ve kind of laid off the CNN host over there. He has the coronavirus. He is broadcasting from his house. I admire that. I wish him well. I feel sorry for him being trapped down there.

So leaving that aside, and I mean it, having a presidential candidate on your show and humanizing him in the way that they’re doing in a really kind of transparent, political way, why is that different from a campaign ad?

SEXTON: Well, it’s not. I think you could make the case that CNN is effectively an ongoing contribution to the D.N.C. Now, I think that the pretense that CNN clings to, just as an organization that for example, their primetime lineup and anybody can try this — and some of them by the way or some of the hosts are very aggressive on Twitter. So you could actually, you at home, you could probably ask, and you might even get an answer from some of the more thin skinned ones.

You could say, are you a journalist or are you an opinion host? CNN is really alone of the networks in having people that are clearly opinion, but act as though they’re journalists and think that then that gives them a pass for things like exactly what you’re talking about, which is being effectively a propaganda arm of the D.N.C. or of a specific Democratic candidate.

And I actually worked at CNN during the 2016 election, believe it or not, and what was being said off and on air in favor of Hillary Clinton and against Bernie Sanders was jaw dropping, and then of course, we found out that there was at least one case of someone giving questions.

So there was a lot of bad behavior in that regard. But we don’t think that CNN is ever going to be held responsible for this. They’re clearly doing everything they can to stop Trump from getting reelected. If that means somebody stands in for Biden, Tucker, I think they’re willing to help that effort, too.

CARLSON: You make a really smart point. I mean, we just had Bret Bair who is our chief political correspondent on, I couldn’t ring up an opinion out, although I tried. He just won’t give his opinion. Period. Because he is a news guy. Period.

There’s not one person on CNN like that. Not one. Is there?

SEXTON: No, not on the primetime line up. What’s amazing is they cling to the old model of thinking that they’re just being objective — they are so right in their opinions that that’s objectivity, which is both delusional and a little scary.

But I would say this, there’s also a broader issue here, and I don’t want to get into — you know, people are now trying to rewrite the history of who said what about the pandemic, and oh, you know, conservative media was wrong and look, that’s a completely —

CARLSON: Oh, I got it, yes.

SEXTON: That’s ridiculous. It’s a farce. But even beyond that, the lack of trust that we have now in objective news media that claims to be objective, at least, that has been a big problem, because., of course, there’s a sense that these people are pushing an agenda at places like CNN.

CARLSON: Of course.

SEXTON: Of course, there’s an understanding that there’s — I mean, and so, it’s absurd to think otherwise. So then when we get lectured and talked down to for saying, well, hold on a second, when, for example, Nancy Pelosi holds up funding for American small businesses and they change the headlines to reflect that it’s a stalemate. We all know what that’s about.

CARLSON: Because they’re completely in the tank. Buck Sexton, great to see you. Thank you.

SEXTON: Thanks, Tucker.

CARLSON: Big Tech is already spying on almost everything you do. If you’ve got a phone with you, they know where you are, but the coronavirus crisis will allow them to do it even more under the guise of public health. We’ll tell you how after the break.


CARLSON: Apple and Google make billions of dollars by harvesting your personal data information about you — private information. So it’s not surprising how they like to fight the coronavirus by teaming up to make a tracking app that will monitor you through your phone.

What could go wrong? Fox’s Matt Finn is here live with more on that. Hey, Matt.

MATT FINN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Tucker, these two tech rivals are actually collaborating to develop software that will alert you if you cross paths with someone who has tested positive for the coronavirus.

In a statement today, Apple says that this software will use existing Bluetooth technology already in our smartphones. The tracing apps will notify you if you come within a certain distance of another phone belonging to a person that tested positive for the coronavirus.

The software is able to look back for 14 days to tell you where you might have come in contact with someone with COVID-19.

Of course, there are a lot of questions. This technology only works if people who tested positive for the coronavirus are willing to share that personal medical information entered into a phone. Apple says some of the technology will be available next month.

Today, President Trump says the tech raises privacy concerns, but he will take a look at it. Apple made the coding for this software already public so that it can be analyzed and says if a person deletes the app, their private information is also erased.

The ACLU says tracing apps could be effective in curbing the coronavirus until there is widespread and free testing. The ACLU writes in a statement, “People only trust these systems if they protect privacy, remain voluntary and store data on an individual’s device not a centralized repository.”

The ACLU says it will remain vigilant to make sure tracing apps like these remain voluntary — Tucker.

CARLSON: Matt Finn, great to see you tonight. Thank you. And by voluntary that means that you agree to it, but it doesn’t necessarily mean you have any idea that you agreed to it. You checked the box some time ago and that’s voluntary. It’s cool with the ACLU. They’re looking out for you.

By the way, we should say, that’s totally fine, and if you have any problem with it at all, you’re some kind of paranoid disloyal American, okay. Big Tech wants to track you through your phone. Health officials want immunity passports. And as we’ll discuss later, they’re closing down Easter.

Some wants bans like this and measures like this to last indefinitely, at least a year or more. What kind of country are we creating? And can we maintain any semblance of the America we knew, say last month, during the course of it?

Ned Ryan is founder and CEO of American Majority. He joins us tonight. Ned, thanks so much for coming on. So we really could kind of choose the Chinese model here. We’re closing down churches, restrictions on internal movement, using technology to track our own citizens. Could there may have been another model other than the Chinese model to respond to this pandemic — this Chinese pandemic?

NED RYUN, FOUNDER AND CEO, AMERICAN MAJORITY: Yes, no, I think Sweden and some of these other countries probably had the right approach where they’ve taken a responsible approach and said certain people have to be quarantined, but we’re not going to shut down the entire country.

I think the thing that’s terrifying about all of this, Tucker is, again, we’re building this Orwellian surveillance state in which we’re combining big government and Big Tech. What was it — Reagan said, some of the most terrifying words in the English language are, I’m from the government and I’m here to help.

I think an even more terrifying version of that is I’m from the government and Big Tech, and I’m here to help, and if you hear those words, dear God, run like the devil is one step behind you. I do not trust them.

And Tucker, when you hear about a national surveillance — a coronavirus surveillance system being proposed by someone in the White House. You hear about immunity cards. I mean, this is very troubling stuff.

And I have to tell you, I think Trump should bench Fauci for what he said about the immunity cards, and also the stupidity of it. How are you actually going to have enough people with immunity cards if you’re calling for quarantining and people sheltering in place? It makes absolutely no sense.

And at some point, we as the American people have to decide, are we going to wholesale surrender our liberties in hopes for a little security against a virus that I do not think will have the mortality rates of the Asian or Hong Kong flu? And if we do surrender our rights, we don’t deserve to be a free people.

CARLSON: At some point, I hope the public will be consulted on this. I mean, it seems like power has moved into the hands of a lot of unelected people. In some cases, impressive people like Dr. Anthony Fauci, who I think is a very impressive person and a nice person, by the way, we’ve interviewed him, but he is not elected by anybody.

And we’ve got to kind of wonder about a system in which people who haven’t been elected, about whom we know nothing, for the most part are making the consequential decisions, is that a democracy?

RYUN: No, it’s not, and I think this is where some of these red state governors have to take the bull by the horns and say, by the first of May, we are going to in a very responsible way have a red state revolt in which we open up a lot of our states, open up restaurants, open up businesses, in a responsible way.

Masks required — all of these things. But we have to, in the second half of April, I really think flatten the media hysteria curve, stop listening to models that are filled with garbage assumptions and garbage data, and let’s get some real stats and have a real conversation, and let’s get back.

Because my concern, Tucker, in all of this, if we continue down this path, we might end up with more suicides and bankruptcies than actual coronavirus deaths as we are destroying our economy.

We have 17 million Americans who are already unemployed in the first three weeks of this. If we continue down this path, this year will be far more deadly than to the disease.

CARLSON: At the very least, we should demand actual evidence to justify these decisions.

RYUN: That’s right.

CARLSON: In fact, next week, we’re going to be interviewing a series of governors and political leaders and just ask them respectfully, but where’s the science to justify what you’re doing? Maybe they will have a good answer. Maybe they won’t. We’ll find out. Ned, great to see you tonight. Thank you.

RYUN: Thanks, Tucker.

CARLSON: So let’s say you were running a country and your job was to protect your nation from coronavirus. What would you do? Your best strategy might be listen to the head of the World Health Organization, and then do the opposite of what he recommends.

His greatest hits, next.

But first, a look at what coronavirus has done to the world’s greatest cities.


CARLSON: Well, the current pandemic has focused on an awful lot of attention, it’s something you may have heard of, but not know much about, the World Health Organization. That’s an international organization that the U.S. has quietly automatically, unthinkingly spent billions of dollars supporting over the decades and mostly, we felt good about it.

But now it’s time to ask the very reasonable question the President is in fact asking — what are we getting for that support?

China spends less than half as much as we do supporting the W.H.O., and it’s clear what they get. They get a servile global organization that is abetting their rise to superpower status. It’s a pretty good deal for them.

The W.H.O. excludes Taiwan from membership solely because Beijing has demanded that they do that, cruelly, by the way.

From the start of this pandemic, the World Health Organization has done shockingly little to stop the virus from spreading around the world. In fact, when the organization appears in public at all, it seems to be functioning purely as an offshoot of Chinese state media.

Tedros Adhanom who is the Director of the World Health Organization has been there for close to three years. He was elected with the support of China over the opposition of the United States.

In late January, Tedros was gushing that China had contained coronavirus. In fact, he said China had set a standard that the rest of the world ought to copy.


DR. TEDROS ADHANOM, DIRECTOR GENERAL, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: The Chinese government is to be congratulated for the extraordinary measures it has taken to contain the outbreak.

China is actually setting a new standard for outbreak response, and it’s not an exaggeration.


CARLSON: All hail China. Tedros was so impressed with the Chinese government, so confident that coronavirus was defeated that he attacked other nations for daring to take the racist step of protecting themselves.

When the President announced travel restrictions on China in late January, Tedros said that would “have the effect of increasing fear and stigma with little public health benefit.”

On February 3rd, he gushed about the Chinese dictator Xi and attacked any notion of slowing down global travel or trade.


ADHANOM: I was so impressed in my meeting with President Xi and his detailed knowledge of the outbreak.

There is no reason for measures that unnecessarily interfere with international travel and trade.


CARLSON: Well, that’s just absolutely disgusting and stupid and violate science and commonsense. Tedros was completely wrong. And because he was wrong, coronavirus became a global calamity.

Three weeks ago as one country after another entered lockdown, Tedros told the world, you should imitate Wuhan.


ADHANOM: Wuhan reported no new cases for the first time since the outbreak started. Wuhan provides hope for the rest of the world that even the most severe situation can be turned around.


CARLSON: That’s one of the most corrupt displays I think anyone has ever seen on tape. Of course, if other countries wanted to reduce their caseload, they don’t want to take the World Health Organization’s advice, and just like the C.D.C. in this country, W.H.O. was pushing the absurd claim that facemask somehow don’t work and are not useful for containing the coronavirus.

China, meanwhile, the country that Tedros never stops praising did not agree with that. In fact, they were hoarding masks. They were doing it all the way back in January.

In fact, you start to wonder how honest the World Health Organization was even giving that advice. You also wonder how honest Dr. Tedros was when he warned against accelerating the use of hydroxychloroquine to fight the virus.


ADHANOM: Using untested medicines without the right evidence could raise false hope and even do more harm than good.


CARLSON: At this point, it is pretty obvious. This guy is trying to hurt people. He runs the World Health Organization and he is intentionally trying to hurt us.

If you wanted an effective anti-coronavirus strategy, you would just do everything that Tedros tells you not to.

In fact, that’s been a pretty solid position to take for a long time. Before he ran the World Health Organization, Tedros was the Health Minister of Ethiopia. On three separate occasions — three — that country was ravaged by cholera epidemics. Tedros lied about it. He refused to admit it was happening and insisted instead, it was just an outbreak of “acute watery diarrhea.”

Hundreds died in those outbreaks which are only accurately identified when they spread into neighboring countries. In other words, he lied on behalf of the Ethiopian government, which was worried more about tourism and their reputation than people surviving an epidemic.

Then he took over the World Health Organization and Tedros vowed to crack down on corruption at that organization. That hasn’t happened either.

The W.H.O. still spends $200 million a year flying its staff around the world often in business. That’s something other health organizations banned their staff from doing. Doctors Without Borders would never do something like that.

Corruption, dishonesty, cover up, shilling for authoritarian dictatorships, lying as people die — no wonder Tedros and China are such profound allies.

Fortunately, people are wising up to this, even the governor of New York Andrew Cuomo says the World Health Organization should be open to criticism.


A. CUOMO: Where were the warning signs? Who was supposed to blow the whistle? The President was asked this question and I think he’s right.

The President’s answer is the World Health Organization should have been blowing the whistle. I don’t — I don’t know enough to know if that’s right or wrong, but I know the question is right.


CARLSON: Yes, the question is certainly right, and the answer is very obvious. They didn’t blow the whistle. People died as a result, and they still get to run around calling themselves the World Health Organization.

Why should we support corrupt international organizations like this? That’s not a partisan political issue. Funding the W.H.O. has only given us a hostile, dishonest bureaucracy that’s directly responsible for spreading this pandemic. We should get out of that organization immediately, and only fund health organizations that help people and prevent disease. And by the way, there are a lot of them — just not this one.

Well, Christians who want to celebrate Easter — that’s a lot of people — many millions may have to do it privately in their homes. No, this is still America apparently. But it’s happening.

We’ll talk to a pastor has been harassed by police for the crime of holding drive-in services, next.

But first another look at how the coronavirus has affected cities around the world.


CARLSON: The coronavirus pandemic has certainly focused the mind of the country and revealed which issues actually matter and which were just frivolous.

As horrible as this is, you are hearing a lot less all of a sudden about which pronouns you’re allowed to use and how borders are racist, at least for most people — not this guy. This is a Princeton Professor apparently actually a Professor at Princeton called Eddie Glaude, Jr. today on MSNBC.


EDDIE GLAUDE, JR., PROFESSOR, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: We’re dying, and we’re seeing the disproportionate impact of the burden of this pandemic, precisely because of the inequality and the deep structural racism that has defined American society for generations.

I’m talking about black America, and I think the effects of this pandemic will throw us back into the 60s and the 50s in terms of our economic standing.


CARLSON: Watching that really does make you hope that Princeton goes out of business soon. It’s just garbage. It doesn’t help anybody. Those words sound like something from another century — structural racism? Coronavirus is going to bring back Jim Crow?

It’s idiotic, it’s mindless. It’s also dangerous. The truth is coronavirus is hurting everyone in this country. It unites us that way. It’s killing people of all races. It doesn’t care what color you are.

Only people like that care what color you are because by dividing us, they become more powerful. Let’s hope that end soon.

Well, this weekend is Easter, but for the first time in America’s history, the country’s Christians will not be able to celebrate it with one another even if they want to.

Most governments of this country will not allow them to gather in churches. Mississippi is under lockdown, all nonessential businesses are closed. That means liquor stores, of course are still open. They are essential. Churches are not essential according to the state.

King James Bible Baptist Church has been trying to hold drive-in services that means parishioners remain in their cars during it, but cops showed up anyway and raided it.


CHARLES E. HAMILTON, PASTOR, KING JAMES BIBLE BAPTIST CHURCH: This is King James Bible Baptist Church of Pastor Hamilton, where, I’m the Pastor of the church.

I’m a good citizen. I ain’t breaking no law, ain’t selling to drugs. I’m just preaching the Word of God. And look at all of the police car here.


CARLSON: That was Pastor James Hamilton you heard on the tape. We’re happy to have him on with us tonight, along with Kelly Shackelford, President of the First Liberty Institute. Thanks so much for coming on, both of you. First to you, Pastor, what exactly were you doing wrong?

HAMILTON: Well, we weren’t doing anything wrong. We were abiding by the C.D.C. guidelines that the City of Greenville had put in place, also the State of Mississippi.

Our members of the church was inside of their cars, had their windows up, and I was preaching the Word of God, so no one was outside. And also we had cars at a distance. And so legally, we weren’t doing anything wrong. We were going by the C.D.C. guidelines.

And so I don’t understand why the police officers would come to our church and try to break it up.

CARLSON: It’s totally outrageous. Kelly Shackelford, I assume that when this happened, every Civil Rights group in America jumped to the pastor’s defense, right?

KELLY SHACKELFORD, PRESIDENT, FIRST LIBERTY INSTITUTE: I don’t know about that. We certainly did. The order that’s in Greenville is just massively unconstitutional.

It targets churches in a way that it targets no other groups. So, cars in parking lots are fine. It’s only a crime if the cars in the parking lot are at the church parking lot.

And I mean, look at last night, he had probably six, seven or so cars there for the church, and yet they were surrounded by police. And I don’t know if you saw the video, Tucker, but one of the police officers came up to Pastor Hamilton and said that because of these orders, because that local order in Greenville, Mississippi, that his rights were suspended.

Those are the specific words he used, like your constitutional rights are gone now. I don’t know what country he thinks he’s living in, but your rights aren’t suspended, and I would just tell any church that has any of these issues or whatever. We have a lot of this information, go to — just spell out First Liberty. It’ll tell you that you do have rights that we want to follow the C.D.C. guidelines. We don’t want people to be injured in any way and that’s what this church did.

CARLSON: Of course.

SHACKELFORD: That doesn’t give people the right to discriminate against churches and treat them in this kind of way.

CARLSON: Well, of course it doesn’t. So Pastor, I mean, I — I’m not against liquor stores, but liquor stores don’t answer the question what happens when you die? Which is something maybe it’d be nice to know now that people are dying from this pandemic. How do you feel that liquor stores get to continue, but you can’t celebrate Easter in church?

HAMILTON: I think of it like this. I believe that liquor — beer have killed more people than the coronavirus ever would. And so it’s a sad case in America.

Whoever thought that we will have a government in Greenville that will pass such a law that will allow the liquor stores to have curb side service, but when it comes to the church and try to disrupt a church service — I would have never dreamed in a thousand years that America, the home of the braves and the land of the free would ever pass this law that will consider a liquor store essential, but church nonessential. I am shocked.

CARLSON: So 87,000 Americans died of alcohol last year. This epidemic is projected to kill 60,000. So you’re absolutely right, technically, factually, you’re right.

I just want to go out on this. I would like to know and if you know the name, I hope you’ll say it on the air, who made this decision that liquor stores get a pass, but hassle your church with armed police officers? What politician decided that was a good idea, Pastor?

HAMILTON: Mayor Errick Simmons. He is the mayor. He’s a supporter of Joe Biden. He made a decision that because most of the vile that was coming with linked he said to the churches, so that’s why he came down very hard on the churches, to not have drive-in service.

I can tell you when 20 police cars came to our church, we felt — not just me — we felt intimidated. We felt frightened, and I heard about this in China. I heard this about a communist country, but I would never thought that I would feel so afraid and my people would feel so frightened and intimidated by police officers.

CARLSON: So you hear about Civil Rights violations. This is an actual Civil Rights violation. Pastor, thanks so much for coming on. Kelly Shackelford, I appreciate your coming, too. Thank you.

SHACKELFORD: Thank you, Tucker.

CARLSON: So health officials have hoped that a new test for the coronavirus antibodies will let us determine exactly how far this disease has spread. Will the test be reliable? Dr. Siegel has the very latest on this. We’ll be right back.


CARLSON: In tonight’s installment of tweets that haven’t aged well, we present you ladies and gentlemen, Congressman Eric Swalwell. On March 4th, Swalwell, tweeted this, “Stop wearing facemasks. #Coronavirus.”

A month later, Swalwell backtracked. He tweeted this, “I regret listening to the Surgeon General and posting this. We all need to wear masks if we go out.” We’re happy the congressman came around, but you also have to wonder — this is a guy who believes the administration is controlled by Russia. So why is he listening to the Surgeon General? Wouldn’t he be a Putin puppet, too?

By the way, why wasn’t Eric Swalwell thinking for himself? Right, because he can’t.

Well, U.S. health authorities are rolling out a new coronavirus antibodies test. The plan is to use the test to estimate how widespread the infection is in this country. The man we consider our show’s chief medical correspondent, Dr. Marc Siegel. He joins us with more on that, plus the effort to develop a safe, effective vaccine.

Doctor, thanks so much for coming on.

DR. MARC SIEGEL, FOX NEWS MEDICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Tucker, I spoke to Tony Fauci this morning about both things, and he said that that testing is really proceeding rapidly. But the trick is going to be to get a unified test and 70 different companies and labs have applied to the F.D.A. for emergency approval.

He thinks that over the next few weeks, we’re going to be able to get an antibody test or more than one where we can say you’ve been exposed, now, you’re over it. You can go back to work. That’s huge.

At the same time, Tony talked to me about the vaccine development and he said that the Moderna vaccine that the N.I.H. is looking at is very encouraging, and it’s about to go out of Phase 1 trials and soon into Phase 2. That’s where they really see how effective it is. That’s what they look for the manufacturing process.

By the time it gets to market several months from now, as you know, ton of regulations but a lot of money has to be put into it, up to about a billion dollars, the manufacturing process.

All of that is ahead, but he warned that in developing a vaccine, you could actually turn the virus into a super virus where you actually see more effects from the vaccine that make you worse. That has happened. And they’re looking very carefully in animal models to make sure that that does not happen here.

It’s one of the reasons that it takes a while, Tucker, to actually get an effective vaccine. You’ve got to be careful.

You don’t want to get a vaccine that you think works. Try it out on a lot of people and find out there’s a big side effect like that. You’ve got to work out the bugs in advance — Tucker.

CARLSON: That’s absolutely terrifying. So that’s what they’re working on now, in just the few seconds we have left — trying to make it safe.

SIEGEL: Yes, and he does think this one is safe, and he says the virus hasn’t mutated, Tucker, and he thinks this is going to work. He is very, very optimistic, Dr. Fauci is about the group of vaccines that’s being tested now.

He feels one of them will emerge and will be the one that will prevent this coronavirus in the future.

CARLSON: Amazing. I always learn a lot. Dr. Siegel, thank you so much.

SIEGEL: Thanks, Tucker.

CARLSON: That’s all the time we have tonight and for the week. Have a very Happy Easter. If you’re in isolation —

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